Imam Khamenei was unparalleled in self-sacrifice, jihad, and steadfastness

Interviewer:

To begin with, welcome Mr. Khalil Hamdan, and thank you for taking the time to sit down with us for this interview with KHAMENEI.IR.

Khalil Hamdan:

It’s an honor… I’m at your service.

Interviewer:

As our first question, please tell us about the relationship between Imam Sayyid Musa Sadr and the Islamic Revolution of Iran and Imam Khomeini (may God sanctify his soul), and the role that Martyr Chamran played in the connection that formed between them?

Speaking briefly about the relationship between the abducted Imam, Sayyid Musa Sadr, and the Islamic Revolution of Iran and Imam Khomeini (may God sanctify his soul) is, from the very outset, difficult for the speaker, for this relationship spans a long history that cannot be summarized in a few sentences. This relationship was both deep and enduring, and also very close, encompassing an ocean of meetings and extensive communications. The abducted Imam, our Leader, Sayyid Musa Sadr, held immense reverence for Imam Khomeini and pinned great hopes on His Eminence for transforming the situation in Iran and establishing the Islamic Republic of Iran as a forward-looking republic. He harbored similar hopes for the future of Lebanon as well. In other words, Imam Sayyid Musa Sadr was never disconnected from the concerns of the Revolution in Iran, and Imam Khomeini (may God sanctify his soul) was never inattentive to following the details of Lebanon's affairs and developments.

Within this framework, several key themes can be identified. First, the matter of Martyr Mustafa Chamran's arrival in Lebanon. This outstanding and distinguished figure never came to Lebanon by chance or merely to find employment. He held one of the most prestigious academic positions in the United States, to the extent that he had a role at NASA. He held a PhD in plasma physics and was a well-known and prominent figure. Nevertheless, he abandoned all those positions to continue the path of this Revolution.

In fact, Martyr Mustafa Chamran can be considered the most precise embodiment of the link and connection between Imam Khomeini (may God sanctify his soul) and Imam Sayyid Musa Sadr Pmay God return him safely). After receiving training in Egypt in 1964, through his connection with Fathi Dib, Jamal Abdel Nasser's representative in Switzerland—who at the time was in charge of liaising with the world's liberation movements—Dr. Chamran, along with Ibrahim Yazdi and a group of Iranian revolutionaries abroad, agreed to secretly train and organize a new generation. Abdel Nasser also agreed to support this program, and this process continued for more than a year. But gradually, Martyr Chamran sought to expand these meetings and train a generation capable—both militarily and intellectually—of confronting the deposed Shah's regime in Iran.

Following that, during a trip to Germany, Imam Sayyid Musa Sadr met with Sayyid Sadeq Tabatabai and a number of Iranian brothers, asking them to introduce a qualified individual who shared the mindset of Imam Khomeini to manage the Jabal Amel Technical and Vocational Institute. As a result of this connection, Martyr Mustafa Chamran arrived in Lebanon in 1970 and transformed that institute from an ordinary educational school into a training ground for nurturing faithful and committed individuals—individuals who, whether among the instructors or the students, carried the thought and ideals of the movement. This center turned into a bustling hive that welcomed Iranian revolutionaries, commanders, and officials.

Among those who visited the Jabal Amel Institute and Martyr Chamran during that period was the late Sayyid Ahmad Khomeini. He also took up the weapons of the Amal Movement, went to the front lines, and stood atop the wreckage of a tank belonging to the Zionist regime that had been destroyed by the fighters of the Amal Movement and the Resistance Forces at that time. That period was a well-known era of construction and revival in Jabal Amel.

Furthermore, communication was maintained almost every month between Imam Sayyid Musa Sadr (may God return him safely) and Imam Khomeini (may God sanctify his soul). Numerous figures such as Sayyid Muhammad Gharavi, Hujjat al-Islam Sheikh Hassan Hariri, and a group of other brothers facilitated this communication with the utmost precision and in complete secrecy. In fact, Imam Sayyid Musa Sadr continuously followed the activities and programs of Imam Khomeini, and Imam Khomeini, in turn, carefully followed the activities of Imam Sayyid Musa Sadr. Between these two magnanimous figures, there were important common grounds: first, dismantling the Shah's regime in Iran, and second, the method of mobilizing forces and the approach to the process of bringing about transformation.

Imam Khomeini was renowned for the slogan "Neither Eastern nor Western," and Imam Sayyid Musa Sadr moved along this very same path; he was determined to build an independent movement free from dependence on either the East or the West. This approach was also manifested in the arena of intellectual and cultural mobilization. Hence, the clarity of their path was rooted in the principle of "infusing politics with religion, rather than politicizing religion." From this perspective, both Imams shared a common foundation in thought and intellectual principles.

Of course, there was another shared bond between these two magnanimous figures. Imam Sayyid Musa Sadr was abducted on August 31, 1978, and just one month later, agents of Saddam Hussein's regime demanded that Imam Khomeini leave Iraq. He traveled as far as the Iraq-Kuwait border, but the Kuwaiti government refused to grant him entry, leaving him in a state of displacement and uncertainty. I read in the memoirs of Ayatollah Doaei where he recalls that at the Iraq-Kuwait border, Imam Khomeini said to him: "If Imam Sayyid Musa Sadr were present in Lebanon, I would go to Lebanon." I consider this statement a testament to the depth of the relationship between those two eminent figures—a bond that stemmed not from fleeting emotions, but from a much deeper and more enduring connection.

For instance, Imam Sayyid Musa Sadr had established a working group to monitor the situation of Iranian revolutionaries in Lebanon: one had been detained by the General Security Directorate, another had been deported, the Shah of Iran was demanding the extradition of a certain individual, another person needed to transit through Syria, and so on. A group of brothers in the Amal Movement handled these matters concerning the Iranian revolutionaries, among them Hujjat al-Islam Sheikh Mohammad Yaqoub, who followed up on these issues meticulously and down to the last detail. Furthermore, the late Haj Mustafa Haj, who was the commissioner of the General Security Directorate at the time, devoted close attention to their affairs—keeping track of who had been detained by General Security, who needed to renew their visa, who was being pursued by the Shah of Iran, and so forth. This went on to the extent that Mansour Qadar had become deeply exasperated with Imam Musa Sadr during that period because of his cooperation with Imam Khomeini and his providing refuge to Iranian revolutionaries.

The key and noteworthy point is that less than a month after Imam Sadr disappeared in Libya, Imam Khomeini was expelled from Iraq. I have read Jacques Chirac's book, Every Step, a Goal. He recounts that when Imam Khomeini reached the Iraq-Kuwait border, Saddam Hussein's ambassador contacted me and sent me a message from the Iraqi President. I was surprised and wondered what this message was about and what was going on. The message requested that Imam Khomeini not be allowed to go to Paris, but rather that he be advised to go to Libya. In other words, after the criminal Muammar Gaddafi had made Imam Sadr disappear in Libya—the very prison the global tyrannical system had intended for him—they wanted to send Imam Khomeini there as well, to join Imam Sayyid Musa Sadr, in order to sever the connection with the Islamic Revolution of Iran. But Jacques Chirac says the president at the time ignored this message and allowed Imam Khomeini to enter Paris.

What role did Jacques Chirac play at that point in time?

At the time, he was an adviser to the President; he had not yet become President himself. Following that, we actually saw that the Arab system as a whole—meaning the US-dependent Arab system, as well as the Persian Gulf regimes that feared the Shah of Iran's dominance over the Persian Gulf region, whom they called the "Gendarme of the Persian Gulf"—decided to get rid of the new Revolution. This was because this Revolution was far more dangerous than the military power of the Shah of Iran. In other words, this was an intellectual and fundamental transformation, one that could spread throughout the region, after which no one would be able to contain it.

Here, in fact, we can say that what united Imam Sayyid Musa Sadr and Imam Sayyid Khomeini was a unity of purpose, a unity of path, and a unity of destiny. That is why, today, when we speak of the "unity of the fronts," it must be understood that years before others, Imam Sadr had already initiated ties with the world's liberation movements and with the Islamic Revolution of Iran.

Here, I would like to refer to the Imposed War against the Islamic Republic of Iran in 1980; a war that the criminal Saddam launched with the financial and military backing of the Persian Gulf countries in general. The goal of this aggression was to contain the Revolution and prevent its effects and repercussions from spreading beyond Iran. They also sought to sever a part of Iran's territory. But, praise God, we say that, as Ayatollah Khamenei has stated, based on a practical assessment, ever since the victory of the Islamic Revolution of Iran, we have neither relinquished nor lost any part of our territory. Therefore, the identity of the Revolution was preserved, the territory of the Revolution was preserved, and despite all the sieges, this path has continued.

Therefore, it can be said in brief that this relationship was one of the part to the whole and the whole to the part; not a temporary and transient tie, but a deeply rooted and profound connection between the thought of Imam Sadr and the thought of Imam Khomeini.

Another point is that after the victory of the Revolution, we traveled to the Islamic Republic of Iran. At the time, the sound of gunfire could still be heard, and the situation had not entirely settled. On February 23, 1979, we flew to Iran on a plane belonging to the Supreme Islamic Shia Council and the Amal Movement. The delegation included Sayyid Hussein al-Husseini, the Secretary-General, and Mr. Nabih Berri, the Deputy Secretary-General. I was also honored to be a member of the delegation because of my constant companionship with Martyr Chamran on the front—both when he was there and when he would come to Beirut. I was always by his side. This companionship gave me a valuable experience and also enabled me to become acquainted with a body of jihad-oriented thought—ideas that, if one were to truly know or learn them, would require a very long time.

That is why I say that Martyr Mustafa Chamran was my teacher in practice and my role model. He would never ask me to do anything. Rather, he would do it himself, and I was expected to learn from him. Even on the front lines or at the school, I served as Martyr Chamran's secretary at the Jabal Amel Technical Institute. He played a tremendous role in shaping my personality. At the age of eighteen, thanks to Martyr Mustafa Chamran, I became a member of the Southern Region Command, because he deepened my acquaintance with Imam Musa Sadr and, at that time, secured His Eminence's trust in me.

We went to Iran and met with Imam Khomeini at a school called "Takmiliyyeh," which was one of the earliest schools in Tehran. Present there were Mr. Husseini, Mr. Nabih Berri, Hujjat al-Islam Sheikh Abdul Amir Qabalan, Hujjat al-Islam Sheikh Mohammad Mehdi Shamseddin, along with others and Martyr Mustafa Chamran. I also do not know why Ayatollah Taleqani was there. I genuinely did not understand the reason and could not make sense of it. Perhaps he had come for a visit or perhaps there was some other reason, I don’t know. Imam Khomeini said, "The best gift you have brought us is Mustafa Chamran." At the time, we took this remark at face value and did not ponder its deeper significance.

Two days later, Martyr Chamran summoned me to the Esteghlal Hotel. He told me that Haj Adel Aoun, who served as the supervisor of the institute, was also present. He was a friend of Martyr Chamran and the very person who had gone to the airport to welcome him upon his initial arrival in Beirut. Haj Adel Aoun had previously received training under Jamal Abdel Nasser, but he did not know Mustafa Chamran personally; that is, he did not realize that this man was Mustafa Chamran. Imam Sadr had instructed him: "Go and welcome a man named Mustafa Chamran; wait for him at the airport and hold a sign bearing the name 'Mustafa Chamran'."

He recounted: "I went to the airport and stood waiting. Suddenly, I saw a man leaping over the barriers one after another. He made his way to me, embraced me, and kissed me... 'I’m Mustafa Chamran,' he said. 

'You’re Mustafa Chamran?' I said. 'You are Abu Jamal, not Mustafa Chamran!'

'Are you Abu Jamal?' I asked. 

'I am Mustafa Chamran,' he replied." 

Then Martyr Chamran began to weep and said, "Praise God, my dreams have come true," and things of that sort.

He came to Jabal Amel. Martyr Mustafa Chamran had a profound and enduring attachment to Jabal Amel, which was truly remarkable. It was the very same sentiment he expressed in his will: "I wish I could be the dust beneath the feet of the poor." At the institute, he would also say that true humility is to be that very dust; this was his intended meaning.

At any rate, Martyr Chamran called Haj Adel Aoun and me and said, "I am sending a truck from here, from Iran, to the Jabal Amel Technical Institute to bring my books and belongings." We asked him, "Dr. Chamran, what are you planning to do?" He replied, "Did you not hear Imam Khomeini's words, when he said that the best gift is Mustafa Chamran? He has asked me to remain here." To be honest, I could no longer contain my emotions.

Interviewer:

Did he fly back from Lebanon with you?

Khalil Hamdan:

Yes, on the very same plane. I traveled with him on the same flight, but he remained in Iran. Honestly, I could not control my emotions. I was very upset. Even Brother Adel Aoun felt the exact same way. We said to him: "Doctor, only a very short time—about five months—has passed since the disappearance of Imam Musa Sadr. He was the first leader of the Amal Movement, and you are the second. Is it right for the Amal Movement to lose its leadership in this manner? We need you, Doctor."

He replied: "My presence in Iran is better both for Iran and for you." After he said this, no one could argue further. He viewed Imam Khomeini’s direction as a binding duty and things proceeded accordingly.

As a matter of fact, from 1979 onward, we remained in contact with Martyr Chamran and many of the students who accompanied him. Among them were Martyr Ali Abbas, Abdul-Reza Mousavi, Sadegh Kafl-Kafl, Taha Hussain, Nassif Ni'meh, and Zuhair Alawi. A group of young men remained there with him. However, I was requested to stay at the institute and continue my work within that same framework.

On the same note, we first became acquainted with Ayatollah Martyr Sayyid Ali Khamenei (may God sanctify his soul) in 1980 in Martyr Mustafa Chamran’s office. It was a short and fleeting meeting. Rather than speaking about us, Martyr Mustafa Chamran spoke about the Jabal Amel Technical Institute, mentioning that these individuals were from the institute and so forth. He praised the students, he spoke of many of the martyrs, and described the institute as a "factory of men." Following that, we sat with Ayatollah Khamenei for a few minutes before he departed due to his heavy schedule.

Interviewer:

What responsibility did Martyr Chamran hold at the time, and what position did Ayatollah Khamenei hold?

Khalil Hamdan:

Martyr Chamran was the Minister of Defense, and Ayatollah Khamenei served as Imam Khomeini's in the Supreme Defense Council. They then went to the frontlines, where there was a shortage of forces, and where unrest, rebellion, threats, and numerous difficulties prevailed on all sides.

Following that, we actually had several meetings with Ayatollah Khamenei. If you don’t mind, I will mention these encounters. The first meeting took place on February 25, 1979,which was the month of the Revolution's victory, and our acquaintance with Ayatollah Khamenei was facilitated by Martyr Mustafa Chamran. Later, in 1997, when we traveled to Iran to congratulate Mr. Khatami on his election to the presidency, we met with him again. We also met Ayatollah Khamenei during the Conference of Arab Parliamentary Representatives and the Conference on the Establishment of the Union of Islamic Parliaments. There, we also met numerous prominent figures, including Nateq-Nouri, the late Ayatollah Hashemi Rafsanjani, and Mr. Kamal Kharrazi, who was the Minister of Foreign Affairs at the time.

After that, I believe in 1989, during the funeral procession of Imam Khomeini (may God sanctify his soul), a meeting with Ayatollah Khamenei was arranged for the Amal Movement delegation, which I headed, and we met with him there.

It was only natural to meet with a figure who was so deeply connected to the issues of the deprived, the revolutionaries, and such causes. In that very meeting, we pledged our allegiance to Imam Sayyid Ali Khamenei, for he was a future-building figure, just as Imam Khomeini (may God sanctify his soul) had described him as a "radiant sun."

Later in that conversation, as we expressed our condolences, respect, and tribute, I truly felt a sense of awe sitting in his presence. Here was a future-building figure who was about to shoulder a burden of responsibility that even mountains could not bear, especially after a long war, a siege, and all the existing hardships.

In fact, I saw in his demeanor a combination of firmness, courage, kindness, and deep warmth. He said, "You, the Amal Movement, are of us, and God willing, Imam Sadr will return. He made immense sacrifices and engaged in jihad, and indeed, for a long time, he lifted the oppression that had been inflicted upon the Shias of Lebanon."

He appeared to possess a precise and detailed command of Imam Sadr's life and legacy. He also emphasized Imam Sadr's stance on Israel—specifically his characterization of it as "absolute evil." He reminded us that Imam Sadr had declared, "Israel is absolute evil," and that Imam Khomeini had said, "Israel is a cancerous tumor." In other words, both leaders pointed to the exact same single truth regarding the essence of this evil.

He then remarked: "Amal Movement, you are of us, and we are your family. We hope your visits to your country—meaning here—will be repeated. God willing, we will also instruct the brothers here to fulfill their duty in welcoming you and facilitating matters for the Amal Movement; you are of us." He emphasized this point once again. Following that, during another meeting held in July 1989 for the forty-day commemoration of Imam Khomeini's passing, the meeting took place in the presence of Mr. Nabih Berri. Since I was in charge of following up on this file, I was also present alongside several other figures from the Movement.

To be honest, Ayatollah Khamenei astonished me with the remarks he made. After Mr. Nabih Berri offered his condolences and underscored the importance of relations with the Islamic Republic of Iran—saying, "You are an exemplar for us," along with other such remarks, which, as you know, stem from his genuine and heartfelt reverence for Ayatollah Khamenei and the Islamic Republic—I heard words from the Leader that I had not anticipated. I did not expect him to say such things to us. And even if one were to regard it as mere courtesy, it was the kind of gracious and heartwarming courtesy that is deeply appreciated, not mere superficial pleasantry.

However, what caught me by surprise was that he said: "You are among your own family." He then turned to Mr. Nabih Berri and said: "Your bone is from my bone, your flesh is from my flesh, and your blood is from my blood; your enemy is my enemy, and your friend is my friend," and things of that sort. 

In response, Mr. Nabih Berri said, "I consider this an honor, with utmost gratitude and appreciation," while bowing his head before Ayatollah Khamenei.

When we stepped out of the meeting, I told Mr. Nabih Berri: "Do you realize the weight of this expression—'your flesh is from my flesh'? This phrase appears in the supplications of Imam Zayn al-Abidin and also in Dua Nudba, where it is spoken in reference to the Commander of the Faithful [Imam Ali] (pbuh) and the Noble Prophet (pbuh): 'Your flesh is from my flesh.' This is not something a leader would say without firm conviction and absolute certainty. God willing, this will mark a new chapter that will make our ties even stronger and better alongside alongside the already solid relations with the Islamic Republic."

As a matter of fact, as I was speaking with Mr. Nabih Berri, his eyes filled with tears, for he valued these words so deeply, seeing that they had elevated us to such an honorable position.

After that, numerous meetings took place on the occasion of the Organization of Islamic Cooperation (OIC) summits. Furthermore, a meeting with Ayatollah Khamenei was also held in 2017.

Among the thirteen meetings in which I had the privilege of being in the presence of Ayatollah Martyr Imam Sayyid Ali Khamenei (may God sanctify his soul), in one instance I was present as the head of a delegation, alongside a group of high-ranking delegations. At that juncture, Mr. Nabih Berri was unable to accompany us due to an urgent matter.

After concluding his address, he stood up. I was seated in the front row. He cast a glance in my direction. I immediately stood up, eager to make my way to him. Ayatollah Khamenei walked over to me, embraced me, kissed me, and asked, "How is the Speaker [Mr. Nabih Berri]? How are our brothers in the Amal Movement? Glad to see you here," and things like that. He then embraced me warmly.

I was truly taken aback by this encounter and such a warm reception. I kept saying to myself, "Am I truly worthy of such grace?" and I bowed my head before him in utmost affection and reverence.

All this humility from a figure who—according to Forbes magazine—is considered one of the most important leaders in the world at the end of the 20th century and the beginning of the 21st century, was deeply moving to me. In any case, whether friend or foe, anyone who reads history fairly will acknowledge the prominent stature of this leader.

There was also a detail that struck me as remarkable. I had been attending these meetings alongside various delegations for some time. Naturally, I did not expect him to remember my name or recognize me. Yet, as soon as he looked at me, he recognized me instantly. His memory, sharp awareness, and his remarkable power of retention were truly amazing. How does a leader who meets thousands of people recall a specific individual from Lebanon among so many encounters?

As a matter of fact, the magnitude of the calamity of the martyrdom of the Imam, Ayatollah Sayyid Ali Khamenei, is immensely heavy. When we speak of what this person accomplished, what he offered, the sacrifices he made, and his biography, few can remain indifferent or hold back their tears; one cannot help but feel deep sorrow over the loss of such a figure.

However, during a meeting held to offer condolences on the passing of Mr. Raisi, I was present alongside Mr. Nabih Berri. Mr. Nabih Berri spoke of the sheer magnitude of this tragedy—I’m talking about Mr. Raisi. In fact, Mr. Nabih Berri expressed his deepest condolences and grief over the passing of Mr. Raisi and the Minister of Foreign Affairs; figures who were deeply loved and cherished by both Mr. Nabih Berri and us.

After Mr. Nabih Berri spoke with great sorrow, Ayatollah Khamenei said, "These tragedies only make us stronger; we learn from them and draw benefit."

Ayatollah Khamenei then went on to recount a memory from Imam Khomeini, saying that when the office of the Islamic Republican Party was bombed, resulting in the martyrdom of over 60 highly prominent figures—and both before and after that, when Martyr Rajai, Martyr Bahonar, and others were also martyred—a profoundly heavy atmosphere of grief hung over the country.

He said, "We went to Imam Khomeini and asked: What should we do? How do we deal with all these calamities?" He then added that at that moment, he heard these words from Imam Khomeini: "The graveyards are full of great men whom people believed the wheel of history would cease to turn without. But we have sufficient experience, conviction, and faith that this path will be driven forward with even greater strength and, by God's leave, will never be halted."

Hence, in truth, the martyrdom of Ayatollah Sayyid Ali Khamenei, stands as a condemnation of the American and Zionist criminals, while simultaneously demonstrating the extent of his steadfastness and perseverance alongside the people.

As Dr. Larijani (may God rest his soul) recounted, they went to him to evacuate him from his residence because they knew the level of danger was at one hundred percent. They told him, "Please relocate to a safe and secure location along with your family."

Ayatollah Khamenei asked, "Can you provide this kind of security for the entire Iranian nation?"

They said, "No, Sir."

He said, "Then I will not leave my home either. The enemies know this as well; I will never leave my house."

He was fully aware that the risk was one hundred percent, yet he stood firm right there, becoming a model of a Leader who is deeply connected to the pains and concerns of his society and who never separates from his people for even a single moment.

Some leaders merely theorize, deliver speeches, and issue directives, yet they intend those prescriptions only for the ordinary public, while their own adherence—or that of their inner circle—to those recommendations is minimal.

However, the Imam, His Eminence Ayatollah Sayyid Ali Khamenei (may God have mercy on him and sanctify his soul), was, as I believe, a role model and exemplar for the people. In my view, within the Islamic Republic of Iran and across the Islamic world, one can find no one who surpassed him in sacrifice, jihad, steadfastness, and sincerity toward the principles and values upon which this system was founded.

This reality, despite all the immense losses, calls us not only to grief but also to deep reflection: such a brilliant history is not forged merely by words, but is realized through acting upon truth and goodness, and by following the example of the Holy Prophet (pbuh). Hence, he remained faithful to this path and this school of thought, practicing what he preached—a lecturer who was himself a practitioner: Imam Sayyid Ali Khamenei.

Interviewer:

You have pointed out the crucial roots of the deep relationship between the Amal Movement and the Islamic Revolution of Iran—especially the alignment between Imam Musa Sadr and Imam Khomeini, as well as their shared orientations. You also addressed the role of Martyr Chamran as a bridge connecting Iran and Lebanon, linking the Resistance Movement in Lebanon with the Islamic Revolution of Iran.

What is particularly striking and noteworthy is that the closest figure to Imam Musa Sadr in Lebanon was Martyr Chamran. Then, upon his return to Iran, during the few short years that Martyr Chamran was present there, Martry Ayatollah Sayyid Ali Khamenei was perhaps among the figures closest to him.

How would you describe this picture? And in your view, what common traits did Imam Musa Sadr and Martyr Ayatollah Sayyid Ali Khamenei share that drew Martyr Chamran to both figures?

Khalil Hamdan:

I truly believe that those who shape history are few in number. Therefore, between the martyred Imam Musa Sadr and Martyr Ayatollah Sayyid Ali Khamenei (may God sanctify his soul), there existed both an intellectual bond and a spiritual connection.

Intellectually, at one juncture, Ayatollah Khamenei met with the martyred Imam Musa Sadr in Qom, and indeed His Eminence himself has recalled that period as one of mutual influence between them.

Imam Musa Sadr was eleven years older than Ayatollah Khamenei. Imam Musa Sadr was born in 1928, while Ayatollah Khamenei was born around 1939. Consequently, Martyr Khamenei held a special reverence and admiration for Imam Musa Sadr, particularly during the period when Imam Musa Sadr spoke on Islamic economics and published a periodical—including a quarterly journal—on the subject.

In the memoirs of Ayatollah Khamenei as well, reference is made to this very relationship, the subject of Islamic economics, and the publication of a quarterly journal in that field.

Imam Musa Sadr arrived in Lebanon in 1960. The period of direct companionship and close association between Imam Musa Sadr and Ayatollah Khamenei (may God sanctify his soul) lasted no more than about a year and a half, yet their communication continued uninterrupted through Martyr Mustafa Chamran.

Imam Sadr also used to speak of figures such as Martyr Motahari—prior to his martyrdom, of course—highlighting his ideas and outstanding qualities. Additionally, he would mention several distinguished seminarians in Qom upon whom great hopes were pinned for the future. Ayatollah Khamenei himself later recounted these matters as well.

It appears that Martyr Chamran shared an even closer relationship in his interactions and engagement with Ayatollah Khamenei. I do not know the precise details of how that connecting loop was initially formed, but the closeness was completely palpable. He would frequently recall certain individuals and names.

I also recall that during that period, there was special attention given to the works of Dr. Ali Shariati, and several of his books—such as Martyrdom, Yes, Thus It Was, Brother, Dua, and Fatimah is Fatimah—were translated from Persian into Arabic. During that same period, some of Martyr Motahari's works were translated as well.

The period when Imam Sadr and Ayatollah Khamenei were contemporaries was not yet the age of widespread publication of written works and books; rather, most communications took place through correspondence.

Prior to the victory of the Revolution, I had heard details from Martyr Chamran regarding these exchanges of letters, but at the time we did not focus heavily on the direct personal relationships between individuals. What remained firmly engraved in our minds was the name of Imam Khomeini.

Interviewer:

During the years of Martyr Sayyid Ali Khamenei's leadership over the Islamic Revolution, you referred to your first meeting following the passing of Imam Khomeini—when you headed the Amal Movement delegation to attend Imam Khomeini's funeral and pledge allegiance to Martyr Ayatollah Khamenei as the Leader of the Islamic Revolution.

Across all these years, how do you evaluate Martyr Khamenei's leadership and his relationship with Lebanon? What place have Lebanon, the Shias of Lebanon, and the Lebanese Resistance held within the thought, positions, and decisions of Martyr Khamenei, particularly given your direct handling of the Iran file within the Amal Movement?

First, I would like to highlight a particular point. Within the overall set of principles and foundational components of Iran's Islamic Revolution, there are core tenets to which all sincere leaders of the Revolution hold themselves bound and in which they genuinely believe. Prominent among these principles are the cause of Palestine, the Resistance in Lebanon, and relations with freedom-loving people around the world.

For instance, the Palestinian cause was not a product of the Islamic Revolution's victory in Iran; rather, it existed long before the victory of the Revolution.

Typically, revolutions around the world take shape as a result of social factors, oppression, and systemic misconduct. Yet what remains remarkable is that within the ideological framework of the Islamic Revolution of Iran, the Palestinian issue maintained a foundational and decisive presence even prior to the Revolution's victory.

Imam Khomeini wrote a book on Palestine, and in his speeches (may God sanctify his soul), the issue of Palestine was seriously raised even prior to the victory of the Revolution.

Even Imam Musa Sadr wrote an article at the age of 14 against the Shah of Iran in the Ostavar newspaper in Qom. Back then, Imam Khomeini was around 16 years old, and in those writings, he spoke both of the Shah's tyranny and addressed the issue of Palestine.

If we review the speeches of Martyr Khamenei (may God sanctify his soul), we find hardly a single address in which the cause of Palestine and its related issues are not mentioned. This subject has consistently remained one of his primary concerns.

What distinguishes the leadership of Ayatollah Khamenei after 1989—given the sweeping developments that unfolded globally—is that he did not divide the world into the "Abode of Disbelief" and "Abode of Faith", unlike the frameworks proposed by certain Islamic parties, whether Shia or non-Shia.

Instead, he divided the world into two camps: the "oppressor" and the "oppressed". From this very perspective, matters such as Venezuela, engagement with revolutionaries, supporting them, and reflecting their demands across media and international forums were pursued in accordance with the directives of Ayatollah Khamenei.

This approach is now the subject of academic study in universities; it highlights the contrast between the rhetoric of certain Islamic movements that emphasize the dichotomy of believer vs. disbeliever, and the approach of Ayatollah Khamenei, who analyzed the world through the framework of the oppressor vs. the oppressed, and the arrogant vs. the dispossessed, irrespective of an individual's religious affiliation.

In fact, this paradigm created a major breakthrough on the global stage and even shifted the perspectives of certain political factions, including leftist movements and European circles, toward the Islamic Revolution. Previously, they had viewed it merely as a Shia religious movement, but they later came to see it in an entirely different light.

I believe one could speak for hours on this subject, but this very approach imposed a tremendous cost on the Islamic Republic of Iran—including sanctions, immense pressures, and the collusion of numerous powers against it—simply because it stood by the oppressed and defended them in the face of tyranny.

Interviewer:

Specifically, what were the policies of Martyr Ayatollah Sayyid Ali Khamenei regarding Lebanon and the Lebanese people's resistance against the Zionist enemy? In your memories, particularly from the meetings with the Amal Movement, do you recall any prominent stances or specific recommendations he offered to Amal?

Khalil Hamdan:

Martyr Khamenei always believed that the existence of the Resistance in Lebanon was a fundamental and essential matter. He would speak of Imam Musa Sadr's role in establishing the "Battalions of Resistance." He appeared to possess comprehensive insight into this matter and always recommended that this resistance be maintained and safeguarded.

For this reason, none of these meetings were devoid of his emphasis on Islamic unity; particularly the unity of Shias, and more specifically, unity between the Amal Movement and Hezbollah. In other words, he would usually begin his remarks by asking about the state of relations between us, and at the end, he would always emphasize the necessity and importance of Islamic unity and unity among the Shias.

Even during our last meeting—which took place during the condolence ceremony for the passing of Mr. Raisi, attended by Mr. Nabih Berri—a notable point caught our attention. This time, His Eminence spoke about national unity in Lebanon. Previously, I had always heard him speak about Islamic unity, Shia unity, and especially unity between the Amal Movement and Hezbollah, but in this meeting, he spoke of national unity.

He also stated that Lebanon's strength lies in the unity of its positions and its sects and communities, emphasizing that you must be united in the face of the enemy. Of course, this phrase—namely "in the face of the enemy"—might not seem pleasant to some, but he placed great emphasis on this unity.

Interviewer:

Did you ever feel, even once, that he was interfering in Lebanon's internal affairs or seeking to issue a specific directive? How did he conduct himself in his interactions with the Amal Movement?

Khalil Hamdan:

I never heard anything from him other than general guidance—guidance that emphasized unity, steadfastness on this path, and prayers for the return of Imam Musa Sadr, Sheikh Mohammad Yaqoub, and journalist Abbas Badreddine. Of course, he also always spoke of Imam Musa Sadr and his two companions.

I say this not to evade the question, but based on what I have personally witnessed: not once did I hear him tell us exactly what we ought to do. What he discussed were always broad principles, the necessity of unity, political alignment, and foundational matters of this nature.

Interviewer:

How do you envision the future of the region following the martyrdom of Ayatollah Khamenei? In your view, what impact will the shedding of his blood have on the movement or the awakening of the nations of the region?

Khalil Hamdan:

In truth, we are at a highly critical and fateful juncture; the old global order has come to an end, yet the contours of the new world order have not yet been fully defined.

Consequently, all the conflicts we are witnessing today represent an effort to delineate the new positions and alignments of the major powers, particularly the United States.

In the previous world order, Europe played the primary role and decided the fate of the region. But today, I believe Europe has lost that role, and it is the United States that is striving to dictate the parameters of this phase and determine the standing of the new political systems.

Today, the entire Middle East and the whole region of West Asia lie under the hegemony of the United States. If you look for an independent role for the countries of this region, you will not find it, because these nations are held in subjugation. The regimes that normalized relations with Israel have placed their oil wealth at America's disposal, and the fate of their governments rests effectively in the hands of the United States. These countries have been reduced to mere fueling stations over which a flag has been raised. But ultimately, the United States does whatever it wants: it imposes its demands, establishes military bases, exercises its dominance, and does whatever else it wishes; all of this takes place under the American umbrella.

Only the Islamic Republic of Iran and the Resistance in Lebanon and Gaza have remained outside this framework. They seek to eliminate this exception as well, in order to establish a unified region entirely under American tutelage.

Yet the Islamic Republic of Iran has succeeded in protecting itself, its borders, its future, and the vision upon which it stands.

Therefore, all the slogans and claims put forward by the United States about regime change, changing the regime’s behavior, or anything else have failed to produce the results they sought.

We have now entered a stage in which the Islamic Republic of Iran has managed to consolidate its position within the new global order and safeguard itself. No one can ignore Iran.

Even regarding the memorandum of understanding signed between the United States of America, Pakistan, and the Islamic Republic of Iran, whether you ask friend or foe, near or far, domestic or foreign, all will agree that this agreement was to the benefit of the Islamic Republic of Iran, and that Iran has succeeded in consolidating its position within the new world order.

As Imam Sayyid Musa Sadr observed: "The weak shall have no life under the sun."

It is power that endures. Just as Ayatollah Khamenei stated: "We have neither lost any territory nor abandoned any belief or principle, and we have preserved both the system and the leadership through natural means."

This path will also continue, God willing, and as a result, we will neither follow any new order nor surrender to the wishes and desires of other powers.

This reality stems from the power of the Islamic Republic of Iran at all levels—a country that has succeeded in protecting its wealth, its borders, as well as its power and standing on the global stage.

Interviewer:

Following the martyrdom of Hujjat al-Islam wal-Muslimeen Sayyid Hassan Nasrallah, during the first Friday prayer sermon delivered by Ayatollah Khamenei on "Nasr Friday" [Jum'at al-Nasr], it can be said that he addressed the people of Lebanon directly in Arabic—perhaps it was his final Arabic address to the Lebanese nation. He stated: "I offer my condolences to the devoted Lebanese nation, the exuberant youth of Hezbollah and Amal, my children..." He then offered some of the most beautiful words of advice. How did the social base and wider milieu of the Amal Movement receive Ayatollah Khamenei’s words?

These words were nothing new to us, because in most meetings, whenever Ayatollah Khamenei mentioned Hezbollah, he would also mention the Amal Movement. He never forgot the Amal Movement.

Even when we were not present at certain meetings, we would hear through his speeches and statements that he always referred to "the Amal Movement and Hezbollah" or "Hezbollah and the Amal Movement."

Therefore, this social environment has been an environment of resistance for many years, with its intellectual foundation rooted in the culture of Imam Hussain (pbuh).

On the ground as well, when Imam Sayyid Musa Sadr initiated military training, some of our religious scholars objected, saying, "You are exposing children to being killed, women to captivity, and the elderly to slaughter. Israel will destroy our homes and set fire to our farms..."

Therefore, they would ask Imam Sadr, "Why do you call upon people to undergo military training and carry weapons, when you have said that keeping a weapon in one’s home is a duty, just like keeping the Quran and the Bible?"

At that time, a massive wave of opposition rose against Imam Sadr. The Al-Hawadith newspaper and magazine told him, "Our Master, the public sentiment is strongly against you because you are calling on the people to resist."

Imam Musa Sadr responded with just one sentence: "Do we not belong to Karbala? Did Imam Hussain (pbuh) not sacrifice everything he had in Karbala?"

Therefore, we believe that everything in this life comes with a price. Within our culture, and in light of the vision and guidance of Ayatollah Khamenei addressed to the Amal Movement and Hezbollah, it has always been our conviction that everything entails a cost. Sometimes, if one refuses to pay a certain cost, they end up paying a far heavier price.

For instance, if you fall ill, you go to a doctor and pay for your treatment. You might choose not to pay that cost, but what will the outcome be? You will die at home. Or, if you want your child to attend school, you have no choice but to pay the tuition—perhaps two or five thousand dollars a year. You might refuse to pay it to save money, but then your child will remain uneducated and be condemned to a life of displacement and insecurity, cut off from their community and family.

Therefore, the issue of cost has always existed, but we are not responsible for these costs. The responsibility lies with the enemy who destroys, kills, and lays waste, targeting civilians—children, adults, and the elderly alike.

In Lebanon, more than 4,500 have been martyred, more than 12,000 wounded, and around 60,000 residential units have been destroyed, along with extensive additional damage.

But this is nothing new. Israel entered Houla in 1948, and in October of that same year, 103 people were martyred. At the time, Menachem Begin was the leader of that armed group; there was no army, no Resistance, no Islamic Republic, none of these things.

Therefore, this threat has hovered over us for a long time. The core issue is our geographical position.

Imam Musa Sadr used to say:

"God has honored us by placing us in such a position—a position accompanied by a great challenge. A person must either rise to the level of that challenge, or they will have no hope of survival."

In other words, refusing to stand up to one’s enemies will ultimately leave a person with no way to survive.

Therefore, this is something natural for our society, and our social environment has been prepared for such circumstances for many years.

The culture of Imam Musa Sadr, his guidance, and his continuous speeches were all grounded in this very principle. For example, in 1975, in Yater, he addressed the people of southern Lebanon, saying: "Sell your house and buy a weapon; sell your bed and buy a weapon; sell your cow and buy a weapon."

In other words, if we allow ourselves to be reduced to a state of weakness and deprivation, nothing will be left for us.

For this reason, these remarks did not come as a surprise to our society or social environment. Of course, there were individuals and voices who objected, but they did not truly belong to the Resistance milieu, nor were they, in practice, an influential or decisive force on the ground.

Ayatollah Khamenei would say: "Resistance comes at a cost, but there is no doubt that the cost of surrender is far greater."

That is precisely the point we wanted to make: the cost of surrender is far heavier, and this is what we are actually seeing on the ground.

So, you mean this truth been demonstrated through historical experience?

Yes, it has been demonstrated through historical experience. Israeli transgression began before the Resistance was even formed, and the Resistance itself emerged precisely as a result of Israel’s transgressions.